I'm Not Sure What She's Saying, But I Know I Disagree
Steph responds to my post about The Veil.
The gist of her argument is that females don't decide what they wear, men do...whether it be the veil or slutty clothes. I couldn't agree less. While there may be instances where men force women to wear the veil, particularly children, or when husbands force their wives to wear slutty clothes, those are not the instances I was talking about.
To retort simply to Steph - who decides what you wear in the morning? Is it a complicated cabal of men who own fashion magazines secretly figuring out ways to get women to show maximum cleavage? Or when it comes down to it - isn't really just you picking clothes at a store from a variety of options and then deciding on what you feel like wearing that day? I mean, come up, let's not kid ourselves.
As for the veil, many women choose to wear it, particularly in primitive (and yes I used primitive to be offensive) Muslim societies. Many people in Germany wore swastikas as symbols of their political affiliation both prior to and during WWII. They chose to do it. The swastika is a hateful symbol. And I feel similarly about the veil. I know it's cheap and lazy to make Nazi comparisons, but I'm feeling cheap and lazy right now.
5 comments:
You never understand what I'm talking about!!! :)
Well, I certainly didn't mean to imply that I believe there is a cabal of white guys sitting in an ivory tower writing up mandates on what women should wear. That's ridiculous. My point was that the concept of female choice in a society in which all our decisions are influenced by the dominant ideology -- in our case, a white patriarchal structure that is changing slowly over time -- is not very simple.
When I awake and get dressed in the morning, it's true that I have a choice of what to wear. And it's true that I could choose to wear clown makeup to work every day. However, moderate people like myself tend to align ourselves with the mainstream. Yes, it's conformity. But I digress.
Conforming to any standard (beauty, religious, professional, cultural) requires submitting to the status quo. And historically, the status quo has been established according to those in economic power. And on the whole, who has the most money? Men do.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html
(You'll notice that out of the first 25, there are only two women on the list, and one is tied with a family member.)
I am well aware that we live in a free society, and it is well within my right to dress however I please, but if we are examining the true concept of choice, I submit to you the possibility that women adhere to these standards as a way to be physically and socially pleasing (sometimes unwittingly). It is a conscious choice, but a subconscious allowance for others to make choices for us.
Also, check out this book:
Mecca and Main Street: Muslim Life in America after 9/11 by Geneive Abdo
http://www.amazon.com/Mecca-Main-Street-Muslim-America/dp/019531171X
I read it and immediately thought of your choice to hate Islam. I'm curious about your reaction. My reaction was mixed, personally.
You are talking about style and dress codes and all of that. A lot of it is rooted in traditions and utility. Dress code for the business world is much different than dress code for the construction world and different from the writing room. Is it unfair for a construction worker to not be able to wear a suit to work without being mocked by his coworkers? I suppose one could argue the patriarchal white power structures have limited his choices...
...and I think you overestimate the abstract power of "money." Many of the richest people in America work in Silicon Valley where the dress codes and work codes are totally different than Wall Street or Hollywood or the Oil Industry. To think "men" who control the money have this monolithic value system of dress or share values on how women ought to dress and figure out a way to control all of that is absurd.
Think about your argument for a moment...really think about it...it is basically using the fortune 500 to explain EVERYTHING. Your argument is no different from saying - Women cut their toe nails because the dominant power structures tell them to do so. Need proof? See the fortune 500 - all men. A woman got into an accident this morning. Why? Because a male dominated society thinks she can't drive well. Need proof - see the fortune 500. You get my point.
Lastly, I know you aren't even trying to make a rational argument when you say I choose to hate Islam. I've never said that, would never say that. I honestly find it beneath me to respond to the allegation. To use the dumb Nazi analogy - I hate Nazis but do not hate Germans. I hate the veil but I do not hate Islam. I hate the practice of stoning women to death for holding hands with non-relatives. Islamic tribes practice this form of justice in parts of Pakistan and parts of Afghanistan. It doesn't mean I hate all Pakistanis. Why you are unable to see this difference is completely confounding. And for you to associate the veil as something synonymous with Islam merely shows a lack of any understanding about Islam and particularly, women's role within the religion...which is odd...because you seem to be interested in women's issues. I doubt I will read that book, although I may read the amazon description.
There is a disturbing trend amoung supposedly liberal people to make excuses for barbaric and completely illiberal practices. It is very puzzling.
"A woman got into an accident this morning. Why? Because a male dominated society thinks she can't drive well. Need proof - see the fortune 500. You get my point."
I don't at all. You seem to be struggling with making a coherent analogy here.
I was talking about the desire (conscious or unconscious)of men and women to be socially acceptable and explaining who may control what we later determine to *be* socially acceptable. C;mon, Greg, make the leap from reading what's printed on the Forbes list to visualizing how these people's decisions must play out in real life. ;)
Conformity is the idea I'm really talking about. Those who are in power determine how we speak about standards, religious and otherwise. In our society, those who control the purse, control the dialogue on social norms. We fit in or we perish.
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