Protests in LA

There was a great debate on NPR about the protests scheduled for today in New York and Los Angeles. There were three speakers, one a calm, well spoken, hispanic lady representing immigrant rights. The second, a USC prof from Annenberg and a writer from the Nation, who was basically "the liberal," and a third, some insider from Washington, who was the conservative.

When the listening got good was when the liberal of the group was pushed by the host on an article he wrote last week, stating that the protests were ill timed because basically, they've won. The immigration bill passed by the House died when it hit the Senate and the President of the United States has asked for a guest worker program, and for the moment, the momentum is completely in favor of the de-criminalizing the illegal immigrants. So what's the point in boycotting and protesting, it can only elicit a negative reaction. Fair point, I thought.

The conservative was up next and also had an interesting point. He said the idea that illegal immigrants have a right to protest for rights is absurd. It is the equivalent of someone breaking into your house and suggesting how to rearrange the furniture (rather catchy, albeit condescending). He argued that the protest movement has ensured that no viable legislation will be passed this year to deal with the immigrant issue.

The hispanic lady responded calling the conservative position hypocritical. She argued that immigrants were not breaking into anyone's house, in fact, they were being let in, even invited in, to do work and are being told implicity, that is okay for them to be here, so long as they remain invisible. This is a violation of their civil rights. These are people that help to run the American economy.

The conservative responded, illegal immigrants do not have civil rights. They have human rights, to be treated humanely when they are deported back to their own country, but are not entitled to civil rights as Americans, because, well, they aren't American. He argued that we went through this exact situation in 1986 when the US granted amnesty to illigal immigrants living and working in the US. The idea was to grant people who are already here, legal status, but get tougher on the border because the US simply cannot sustain an indefinite number of immigrants into our social systems. He argued that sure it would be bad for the economy if all the illegal immigrants left tomorrow in the short term, but in the long run, the economy would do fine, even better, because low wage workers wouldn't be pushed out of their jobs and industries that rely on cheap labor would be forced to innovate as opposed to depending on cheap labor. He also went on to argue that these reforms from 1986 have been undercut by a cabal of business interests and racial interest groups, both of whom want illegal labor for their own narrow purposes.

The liberal on the panel called the conservative position economically ridiculous and disingenuous. He argued that during the Civil Rights movement, many felt what African Americans were doing what was considered "illegal" at the time as well, because their rights as Americans were limited.

The conservative disagreed, saying comparing illegal immigrants to African Americans is an insult to the Civil Rights movement, which was a patriotic movement, which made claims based upon rights promised to African Americans in the Constitution. There are no rights for illegal immigrants in the Constitution.

Interesting points, all. I don't believe that the illegal immigrant workers rights movement cares at all about stemming or even controlling the flow of immigrants across the border. In ten years, they'll ask for another amnesty for illegals that come across tomorrow. At the same time, I don't believe people living amongst us should feel hidden or invisible, particularly if they are law abiding, tax paying citizens.

I don't know the solution, but I suggest a real cut down on illegal immigrants will only come if businesses who hire them are punished commeasurate with the external costs of illegal immigration on society.